Having stood at the DPS for about an hour and a half to renew my driver’s license, it’s time now to study Revelation 4-5 for tonight’s class. Next renewal: 2018.
Updates from Weylan Deaver RSS Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts
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Weylan Deaver
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Weylan Deaver
Yesterday I read my first Max Lucado book (“One Incredible Moment”). Yes, he is a talented writer. Some of his style is simply making up details not in the text and weaving them in vivid description (which carries the danger of your remembering the biblical story with details that are not actually in the biblical story). And, some of it is genuinely thought-provoking. What did I not appreciate? There was at least one typo. More serious, he uses denominational terminology, such as “pastor” for preacher. More serious yet, he so vividly describes God’s love, the gift of Jesus to the world, man’s need for salvation — and then fails to offer God’s terms of forgiveness. Lucado’s writing is creative, but his teaching is not distinctive. In other words, it could be endorsed by just about any denomination, which, no doubt, is key to his widespread popularity across the religious spectrum. The book is not mine. It was lent me, unsolicited, by a church member. I will give it back tonight. I will not say Lucado has nothing at all to offer. But, when it comes to the distinctive marks of the Lord’s church, he is offering readers almost nothing at all.
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Mike Riley
I haven’t read any of Max’s books, but from what I have read about him, his writings tend to “bend” toward the Community Church movement.
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John Henson
“Lucado’s writing is creative, but his teaching is not distinctive. In other words, it could be endorsed by just about any denomination, which, no doubt, is key to his widespread popularity across the religious spectrum.” That’s it, brother. That’s the heart of it right there.
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Weylan Deaver
Learned this morning from Randal that the average American throws $103 at Valentine’s Day–let’s hope my wife is not alerted to that statistic.
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John Henson
Mine has been above the average and it ain’t over yet.
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Weylan Deaver
Be strong, John.
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Stephen R. Bradd
Hmm. The average American OR the average American COUPLE?
$206 per couple–that seems a bit high. Maybe I’m just cheap and out of touch.John is making up for Weylan and I.
Of course, a more helpful statistic in this case would be the MEDIAN. I bet there are some outliers really bringing the mean up. I’m just guessing, though. I could be wrong.
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Eugene Adkins
My life got a $2.50 card with a $1,000,000 message written inside :)
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Stephen R. Bradd
Nice Freudian slip there, my friend…
“My LIFE”
If only everyone viewed their mate as their “life”!-
Eugene Adkins
I’ll say one thing Stephen, I wish I could take total credit for it, but you were right in that my comment was a “slip.” I did mean to put “wife” but hey, you know what they say – if the shoe fits….
The funny thing is that the “W” and the “L” are on different sides of the keyboard! I told my wife what happend and she said it was subliminal. Maybe she’s right. Have a great night brother.
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Weylan Deaver
I’ve been working this week on a line of thought that hit me Sunday morning as I was studying for a sermon based in Numbers 20. It involves a comparison between what happened there at the rock in Kadesh and what happened 40 years prior at another rock in Rephidim (Exodus 17). Both involved a rock, water, Moses, a staff, and a complaining people. But God’s directions were very different. Therein, I believe, lies an application for our worship (which will not bolster the cause of those who appeal to the OT for present worship). Check out the article, “From Believer to Rebel,” at biblicalnotes.com and leave your feedback here. Am I overstating the case, misapplying the examples, drawing wrong conclusions? Or, is this a powerful point we ought to use with brethren of “liberal” persuasion?
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Stephen R. Bradd
I like it, Weylan. Good piece. If this is overstating the case, then I guess I’m guilty, too.
http://www.audioevangelism.com/sndwrds/transcripts/SW_2007_09_22_text.htm
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Eugene Adkins
Interesting way of looking at it.
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Weylan Deaver
Check out Randal’s latest poem at BiblicalNotes.com (whether prose or poetry, his writing does not disappoint).
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Mike Riley
Yes, Randal is a good poet, no question about it!
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Don Ruhl
I agree that there is something about Randal’s writing that I always want to check it out, and I am not disappointed. The BrazilianPreacher Dude knows what he is doing.
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John Henson
I appreciate and value what he does in poetry. There are so few who can write poetry well.
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J. Randal Matheny
Thank you, gents. You’re too kind by half.
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Weylan Deaver
Spent the last two classes introducing the book of Revelation. Tonight at Sherman Drive we will actually start into chapter 1. Looking forward to learning as we go through it. After all, Revelation is God’s last word to the church of Christ before the return of Christ.
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Weylan Deaver
Yesterday one of the sisters here in Denton, Texas handed me a newspaper clipping to read. Looking at it later, I noticed it was from a paper in Moultrie County, Illinois, and written by none other than Ron Thomas. So, Ron, your writing gets around–keep up the great work!
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Ron Thomas
How humbling! What did I say?
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Weylan Deaver
It was a short opinion piece critical of “civil unions.”
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Ron Thomas
Thank you, Weylan, for this – I am encouraged by your word.
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Stephen R. Bradd
Ron, were you advocating UNcivil unions? :)
I stumbled across your name, Ron, in an issue of Think magazine from last year (Krohn had submitted a comment and favorably mentioned you). I just happened to read it yesterday.
It seems your name is everywhere, brother.
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Ron Thomas
Think magazine? I used to get it, but economics prevent me now. Thanks for the note, Stephen. Speaking of notoriety, it seems that Audio Evangelism is doing remarkably well. A credit to all who work with it.
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Weylan Deaver
In the spirit of the season, here’s a fresh poem from my oldest teen daughter, Lacey, on getting a cold: http://ivorykeys94.wordpress.com/2012/01/21/a-cold-got-a-hold-of-me/
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Ron Thomas
Very well done.
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Weylan Deaver
In the category of the interesting tidbit: The words “careful” (34) and “carefully” (26) occur a total of 60 times in the NKJV Bible. The sermon at Sherman Drive tomorrow will focus on a few of those verses, under the heading of “Be Careful.”
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Weylan Deaver
The Uncaused First Cause
“The theistic response to Sartre is brief. First, God is not a self-caused Being; He is an uncaused Being. A self-caused Being is impossible, but an uncaused Being is not. Second, theists do not hold that every thing is caused, but only that contingent things are caused. A Necessary Being does not need a cause, since He exists by His very nature.”
The quote is from Introduction to Philosophy, A Christian Perspective by Geisler and Feinberg (pp. 293f.). As the Hebrews writer put it long ago, “For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God” (3:4, ESV). God is unique in that he is the only one whose very nature is to be. Thus, God instructs Moses to tell Israel, “I AM has sent me to you” (Exod. 3:14). Everything outside God is contingent (i.e. dependent), requiring an adequate cause for its existence. “By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible” (Heb. 11:3). The principle of causation leads inexorably to an infinite, uncaused, Creator. The atheist must be false to his own nature (which was made to seek God, Acts 17:27), false to the overwhelming evidence (the heavens declare God’s glory, Psalm 19:1), and false to right reason (since disbelief is inexcusable, Rom. 1:20). His is a fool’s errand.
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John Henson
Great post, and some fine analysis on the matter.
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Weylan Deaver
Thank you, John. I believe this is the first time I began a brief post to TFR and then it grew into an article for the next church bulletin.
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Mike Riley
Good job, Weylan! It just can’t get any plainer than what you stated.
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Weylan Deaver
Do any of you fellows lie awake at night, composing mental sermon outlines you hope you’ll remember after you get to the office?
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J. Randal Matheny
My best sermons, poems, thoughts, were those lost in the wee hours of the morning. Just the other night I got up to jot down a thought, because I’d forgotten to put a pen and notebook at my bedside.
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Ron Thomas
I have not had that “blessing” like others have. Most of the ideas that come to my mind are in the office, but every now and again they come to when outside the particular confines. My greatest “hangup” is to get an idea and then have a few days come and go and, even though I wrote the idea down, when I look at it again, whatever I thought … well, I am just not inspired the same.
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John Henson
That’s why a pen and pad are near the bed. I will often have a thought on the basis of the day’s study (or something Randal wrote) and I try to joy those down before sleep.
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Don Ruhl
This is the curse of being a preacher! I am guessing that everyone of us does this. When we are driving down the road, walking or hiking, sitting in a restaurant with our wives (whom we are supposed to be thinking about), while listening to other preachers, watching a movie, in a conversation with someone, etc.
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Ron Thomas
Yes! I like that…(whom we are supposed to be thinking about). None have never been guilty of that!
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John Henson
Right, Don. On some smartphones (like the HTC Evo) there’s an app for that, a voice recorder might take away the need for a pad. (Found out this morning!)
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Weylan Deaver
I suppose, when you preach, you’re never more than four days from a major speech (either a Bible class or sermons, or both), so the pace is relentless. But now we know when bro. Don takes his wife to dinner, he is really formulating a sermon. I think you are on to something, Don, about preachers listening to other preachers differently than most members listen.
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Don Ruhl
Weylan, you are so correct about the relentless pace of facing a major discourse constantly! I feel that burden, and the joy of it also.
The director of my school of preaching, Hugh Shira, also taught a homiletics course, and he said once that if 100 people are attendance and you speak for 30 minutes, you have used up 50 man-hours (representing all those people who have ceased their regular activities for the moment, to hear you speak). Therefore, you better have something to say.
That made a deep impression upon me, and so I have always determined to have something to say rather than wasting people’s time.
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Weylan Deaver
That is a good perspective, bro. Don (and, glad you are out of the hospital). I try to develop lessons that interest me. Maybe it’s a pointed truth brought out by a Greek work, or a challenging theological concept, or a fascinating historical detail, or a new approach to an old subject, or perhaps a biblical character rarely mentioned. I hope that, if it interests me, it will interest others. On the other hand, if I’m not sold on my own sermon, how am I going to be able to present it effectively to anyone? Nothing worse than delivering a sermon while, in the back of your mind, thinking, “this is not very good.”
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Eugene Adkins
Absolutely! And often times the “flow” at that time is much better in my head than it is the next day when I start to write. Oh well.
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Weylan Deaver
Working right now on sermon slides for this Sunday’s a.m. lesson: “Power in the Blood”
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Weylan Deaver
It was a good Sunday night at Sherman Drive, with a nine year old girl being baptized into Christ by her father. The family actually worships with the Lewisville congregation, but the girl’s grandmother attends here, so they came here where she could be part of it. No matter, since we’re all headed toward the same place. Angels rejoice and…another defeat for the devil.
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Stephen R. Bradd
Good news! Thanks for sharing.
Weylan, I sent a book order to “1913 Cindy Lane” and it got returned.
Can you send me a copy of your Dad’s HS book & invoice me?BRADD
824 W MAIN
CLINTON, IL 61727Thanks!
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Weylan Deaver
Stephen, yes, that’s an outdated address. I’ll send you an email with contact info. If you don’t get my email this afternoon, please let me know.
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Weylan Deaver
It’s finally beginning to look like fall in north Texas. Last fall–our first one here in Denton–we had an elders/deacons appreciation dinner in our home. Tonight we’ll do that again. Cheri and the kids are putting a lot of effort into making it a special occasion. I am thankful to be able to work with the good leaders here at Sherman Drive. The Lord has blessed us richly.
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Weylan Deaver
Day two after Facebook account deactivation. So far, I have not experienced spontaneous human combustion or other severe and undesirable effects. Still on Twitter, I am putting to the test the question on everyone’s mind: “Is it possible for a person in 2011 to live happily while engaging in only one online social network?” Results await.
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John Henson
Well, the day is young. May you be spared any permanent damage.
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J. Randal Matheny
If you get to feeling strange, come join me on Friendika at http://frndk.de/profile/jrm .
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Weylan Deaver
Randal, can you offer a brief assessment of your experience with that? I’m fuzzy on how it works. Do I have to download a program onto my computer? And, it is an amalgamation of various social networks (e.g. Facebook, Twitter, etc.) that plug into it?
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Mike Riley
Weylan, actually it’s possible to live happily while engaging in no online social network. I’ve lived without I-Pods, I-Pads, I-Phone, or any other electronic gadgetry, and I’m relatively happy. :)
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Weylan Deaver
First weekday back in the office. I need to write a sermon. But I also need to carve a pumpkin. What to do…
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Ron Thomas
The first thing to do is make a pot of coffee. :-)
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Weylan Deaver
I have that covered; time to pour a second cup.
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J. Randal Matheny
Are they similar activities?
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Ron Thomas
We’re “faithful brethren” now!
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Weylan Deaver
I’ve never considered an analogy between sermon writing and pumpkin carving. As I ponder…no, I think they are dissimilar.
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John Henson
Depends on what, or who, one is carving.
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Weylan Deaver
Well, I’m not going to get a sermon written today. But I did get an article written, so that’s good. Pizza and pumpkin carving await!
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Weylan Deaver
Tonight’s sermon at Sherman Drive: “Judging”
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J. Randal Matheny
Like some other sermon title of yours, I ask, you fer it or agin it? :)
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Weylan Deaver
I broke it into categories and subcategories of judgment; I’m for the good kind of judging and against the bad kind!
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Weylan Deaver
I think I’ll try my daily Bible reading this morning on the iPad. Do any others of you do much reading onscreen? At one time I thought I would never prefer it, but may be changing my mind–especially since a bookmark will automatically sync with my phone. And, because it is back-lit, you can read in dim light, or even the dark (I like to walk while I read, but not necessarily under a bright light). They’ve done about as much as they can to make the screen look like a real page from a printed book.
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Stevelucas
Waylan,
In a related vein, how many folks in the audience read the Scripture via an Ipad or Iphone? I must admit before I became a bit more knowledgeable, I was disappointed at the number of the younger set were more occupied with texts and emails than a lesson. However, I learned somewhat early on that when I asked for someone to read a Scripture, it was these same Iphone holders who began reading the text from their devise. My how technology and times change. Interestingly, my wife and I find many more opportunities to read Scripture due to the convenience of these devises, such as standing in a checkout line; while taking a break during work; etc. I wonder in what ways the use of these devises can be further linked to sharing the Gospel?
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Ron Thomas
Not I. The only time I read onscreen is when I have to. I am, largely, a material book fellow. I like to write in my Bible, and what writing I do includes “whiting out” marginal references for additional writing space. Could you imagine me “whiting out” on the computer screen? I would be that proverbial “blonde” (of course, don’t tell anyone that I am actually that hair color!).
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Stephen R. Bradd
I always knew it and now Ron has admitted his materialistic tendencies. :)
I don’t have an iPad or even a smart phone, but perhaps one day. I can see myself preaching from an iPad in the future.
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Robert Floyd
If you have an iPad, check out the OliveTree readers. They have clients for other mobile devices, but the larger screen space makes a difference and could change how you do your Bible study/note taking.
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Weylan Deaver
I’m not familiar with OliveTree readers. I’ve never preached from an iPad and don’t see myself doing that. But, never say never…
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Robert Floyd
Imagine carrying your entire Bible reference library with you and have all of it cross referenced to each other: that’s what the OliveTree line offers. It’s an amazing app, especially if you purchase appropriate reference works. With that and an app like OmniOutliner, it’s easy to work on your lessons/sermons from just about anywhere.
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Glenda Williams
Weylan, let us know what you think about the new way to read your Bible. I really enjoy turning pages. I’m really behind on the new-fangled gadgets and interested in feedback. Walking while you read? Oh my, I would be on the ground right away! Keep us posted!
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Weylan Deaver
Oh yes, I can stay on my feet for hours at the office without sitting, and the church building affords space to walk, especially now that it is cooling off in Texas and I am not confined to my air-conditioned room. On the iPad, when you swipe the screen, it does actually look like a page turning.
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Weylan Deaver
In last Sunday night’s sermon I delved into the connection between belief in aliens and belief in evolution. I think it will be the subject for the next article the Sherman Drive congregation puts in the local newspaper. Better get to writing…
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Ron Thomas
That will be an interesting read!
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Weylan Deaver
Tonight I’m trying a new topic for preaching: “Monsters” (think of such questions as, what does the Bible say about vampires, witches, aliens, ghosts, etc.). It took my 13 year old son to get me to develop an outline about this…
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Glenda Williams
Now that sounds interesting. My husband has a weekly newspaper column asking “What does the Bible say about….”. It is published in three surrounding city newspapers and has generated quite a bit of interest.
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Barbara Ann Oliver
Can’t wait for you to share it with us! :)
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Weylan Deaver
It seemed to go over well enough. We dismissed vampires, zombies and werewolves. Getting into aliens, I was struck by the connection between belief in aliens and evolutionary theory–all the way up to Richard Dawkins. Then we touched on witchcraft, ghosts and demons. Audio should be up shortly at: http://shermandrive.org/sermonfeeds/
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Weylan Deaver
Birthday greetings, salutations, and well-wishes from the Lone Star State to Ron Thomas in Illinois. And I hope he will clarify a question that just came to mind. If a citizen of Texas is a Texan (a simple word conversion, yes?), then how do you call a citizen of Illinois? Please give the proper term, along with diacritical marks for pronunciation, if possible.
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Ron
Apart from Illini I would not know how to answer. I suppose I could say Illinoian, broken down to something like this: ILL-I-NOI-AN
Otherwise, I think I am sunk.
Thank you for the birthday wish; 51 I am. Was in St Louis yesterday.
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Weylan Deaver
A Scary Novel…That’s Clean?
I suppose it’s expecting too much that a worldly author would write a novel not drenched in worldliness. I enjoy a scary story. And, it is October, you know. I went in search of a good horror novel and found one written in the late 1970′s which was supposed to be particularly spooky. I gave it one evening and got about 70 pages in. The potential was there, but you had to wade through some vile scenes. I’m not talking about an occasional profane word (I was marking those out as I went along with a black pen). I’m talking about graphic sensuality that made the whole story not worth it. So I tore the book in two and tossed it in the dumpster, never learning how the tale ended. Nor do I plan to even attempt another book by that author. Had he left out a few offensive, unnecessary paragraphs, he might have made me a new fan for life. We’ll never know.
Every October I read aloud to the kids Washington Irving’s classic, “The Legend of Sleepy Hollow,” and we’re in the middle of that right now. There is a passage where Irving describes Katrina as wearing a petticoat so short that it actually showed off her (gasp!) foot and ankle–and that’s about as risque as the story gets. As this month’s literary project, the kids and I are set to all read Stevenson’s “The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde,” another enduring classic in which I do not expect to find passages in need of excising (and which even has a moral lesson to teach).
Most of my reading is work-related, but it is disappointing to step into the waters of modern fiction and find them so foul as to be repulsive. Recommendations, anyone?
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Russ McCullough
Anything by Edgar Allen Poe always raised the hair on my neck! Also for an intense mystery, try The Count of Monte Christo. For the kids try any of the Hardy Boys and / or Nancy Drew mysteries.novels.
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Stephen R. Bradd
My boys (9 and 7) love the Hardy boys! We read them out loud frequently in the van.
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Weylan Deaver
BiblicalNotes.com
In the category of trying-to-get-the-word-out-without-sounding-too-self-serving, the time has come to focus on building the site at biblicalnotes.com. If you’ve not taken a look, please stroll over sometime and browse around. If it appears it could be helpful, go ahead and subscribe via email (scroll to the bottom of the page), or bookmark it for future reference. More writers to be added shortly. Dad already has a couple of new articles in mind he wants to see published there. As administrator, I hope it can be a truly useful site, without duplicating the good efforts already extant.
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Ron
Appreciate the work, brother. I bookmarked it.
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J. Randal Matheny
Even if there is some overlap, I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing in the Kingdom. You’ll reach someone somewhere that another effort won’t. We can’t have too much of a good thing. Well, Proverbs says, unless it’s honey. ;-)
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Weylan Deaver
Working on a new hymn this week.
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J. Randal Matheny
Be sure to share it when it’s done.
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Weylan Deaver
Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, Don’t Disapprove
[This is a short piece to appear in the local newspaper, "The Denton Record-Chronicle", later this week. I fear the hour is late--wd.]
In Romans 1:32 Paul mentions those who practice sin, and those who approve sin’s practice. You do not have to be personally guilty of any particular sin in order to endorse others who are. God forbids both sin-practice and sin-practice approval. This month has seen the President strike down the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, which kept soldiers from openly declaring homosexuality. But, it seems, if there is one thing the emboldened homosexual cannot stand, it is the thought that he does not enjoy approval of his behavior, even at the highest level. The homosexual lobby knows no satisfaction short of a complete restructuring of society around its aberrant values. So now, in the military, they will be allowed to be openly homosexual in practice, while the government makes sure we put an indelible, red, white and blue stamp of approval on the practice. A country of greater moral fiber would not be entertaining such issues. If the practice is sinful, then it is also sinful to endorse the practice, even though approval come from the Oval Office. Immorality is not legislated into morality. And our national leaders would do well to remember that biblical principles trump American politics, policy, and political correctness every time. “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10, ESV). Come visit us at the Sherman Drive church of Christ, where we still believe God meant what he said about sin.
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Ron
A great article for the editorial section (I presume).
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Weylan Deaver
Where but America would we have a time when the country shuts down and call it Labor Day? Do any of you other preachers have difficulty taking holidays? For example, if I don’t work tomorrow since it’s a national holiday, I’ll still be expected to deliver two classes and two sermons by next Sunday. Ready or not, here it comes…
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Mike Riley
America has more holidays and gets less work done than probably any other country in the world. Our society is one spoiled group of folks, that’s for sure!
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Stephen R. Bradd
Hi Mike. Actually, I think America is fairly low on the holiday/vacation days compared to other countries. I can’t speak to productivity, however. Take a look at this link and the comments in the upper right corner:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/33431347/Which_Country_Gets_the_Most_Vacation_Days?slide=1-
Mike Riley
While it may be true that other country require more time off than the USA, if you were to take all of the holidays, vacation time, Spring break, summer break, etc. that teachers in America take off, you’d have accumulated approximately three months out of the year.
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Stephen R. Bradd
Weylan, unless we’re traveling to see family, I rarely take holidays off. As you noted, there is a certain amount of work to get done each week. Time to get busy! :)
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Ron
Weylan, I don’t take days off all that much. If I have a scheduled day it is only one (Saturday). That’s not to say that I am not encouraged to take two days (or as many as I need), but since this is my life (not my occupation – I think you understand what I mean by this), I just don’t take time off like another would. Some men feel like they need to, and I will be the first one to encourage them to do this. I am a bit odd, I suppose.
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John Henson
As Ron indicated, there is always something to do. I have Monday “off” but there is still work to do. I do go to the golf course on Monday and bungle 18.
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Weylan Deaver
Deaver-Vick Debate
This October 24-27, 2011 Mac Deaver and Ben Vick will conduct a four night public debate at the building of the Shelbyville Road church of Christ in Indianapolis. Propositions for discussion are as follows:
“The Scriptures teach that Holy Spirit baptism has ceased and is no longer in the church today.”
Affirms: Ben F. Vick, Jr.
Denies: Mac Deaver“The Scriptures teach that when a person becomes a Christian he is baptized in water and in the Holy Spirit.”
Affirms: Mac Deaver
Denies: Ben F. Vick, Jr.Much could be said here, but I will rather let the debate do the talking. This is an issue which seems to raise certain brethren’s blood pressure in a hurry, yet we ought to be able to calmly, unprejudicially, objectively weigh what the New Testament teaches and let it be the final say. If not, what separates us from the denominations?
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Larry Sheehy
Weylan, will the discussion be available via any type of mass media? I would like to attend, but can’t.
Mac and I were at Harding together; please tell him “Hello” for me!
Larry Sheehy
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Weylan Deaver
Larry, I saw where someone is planning to stream it online. Hopefully, more details will be forthcoming as the date gets closer. Thanks.
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Weylan Deaver
Larry, I did convey your greeting. Dad said plans are to record it for offer on CD and DVD, in addition to the live streaming online. So it should be available, one way or another, to everyone interested.
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Ron
Stephen Bradd and I intend to attend at least one night of the debate, Lord willing the first night. After that I’ll see.
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Weylan Deaver
Hope you and Stephen can. It would be good to see you again. Bro. Vick will be in the affirmative the first two nights.
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Weylan Deaver
Ron, if you and Stephen can only attend one or two nights, I would like to see you there for Dad’s affirmative (the last two nights), though all of it will be eye-opening.
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Ron
At this point, Weylan, we plan on a Monday and Thursday.
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Weylan Deaver
More info here, including a link to watch it live: http://biblicalnotes.com/2011/10/18/preview-deaver-vick-debate-indianapolis/
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Weylan Deaver
Just returned from another great week at Polishing the Pulpit in east Tennessee, where I was able to meet three of the “fellows” on this board: Larry Miles, Phil Sanders, and Richard Reinhardt. Phil had an excellent lesson on how to prevent losing our young people to the world.
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Weylan Deaver
“Compelle Intrare”
In Jesus’ banquet parable (Luke 14:12-24), the master sent his servant to gather up guests for the feast. His instructions were, “Go out to the highways and hedges and compel people to come in, that my house may be filled” (v. 23, ESV).
In Latin, “compel people to come in” is written, “compelle intrare.” From early centuries of church history through medieval times and beyond, the Roman Catholic Church leaned on a grotesquely twisted interpretation of “compelle intrare” in Luke 14:23, concluding that governmental authorities had the right to coerce people into the church. In a perverse marriage, Catholicism and the state were so tied together that the former could dictate the latter use deadly force against the church’s enemies. And, the church’s enemies included whatever men and doctrines were not in lock step with what the Catholic Church taught. Forced conformity to Catholicism was the glue holding society together. Naturally, if people were allowed to study the Bible for themselves, voluntarily practice what they believed from their own study, and freely preach their views, it would be a fundamental threat to the church’s power (and the crumbling of society, as they knew it).
Reformers such as Martin Luther are often hailed for their courage in confronting the status quo in religion (i.e. Catholicism). Yet, what they created in the Reformation was simply another state religion like Catholicism—only with certain different doctrines. In other words, while Luther opposed the Catholic Church, he very much endorsed the idea that the Reformed church could use force against its own enemies.
While the reformers (such as Luther, John Calvin, etc.) were battling Catholicism, there were others insisting that both sides were wrong in their concept of a church which forced itself on everyone in a given locale. The view of these objectors was that the church of Christ consisted of voluntary believers, and that it had no connection to the state; nor was it biblical to use force in spreading the gospel. They studied their Bibles and clung to their convictions. They also found themselves mercilessly persecuted by both the Catholic Church and the Protestant Reformers.
Martin Luther commissioned his friend, Urbanus Rhegius, to fight those who were calling for a church formed only of voluntary believers. Rhegius said:
“The truth leaves you no choice; you must agree that the magistracy has the authority to coerce his subjects to the Gospel. And if you say, ‘Yes, but with admonition and well-chosen words but not by force’ then I answer that to get people to the services with fine words and admonitions is the preacher’s duty, but to keep them there with recourse to force if need be and to frighten them away from error is the proper function of the rulers….What do you suppose ‘Compelle intrare’ means?” (quoted in Leonard Verduin, The Reformers and Their Stepchildren, p. 74).
Those who thought the church and state were separate, that the state should not interfere with the church, and that the church should be organized along New Testament lines, were considered radicals and hated as enemies. One of them was Felix Manz, of Zurich, Switzerland. His goal was “to bring together those who were willing to accept Christ, obey the Word, and follow in His footsteps, to unite with these by baptism, and to leave the rest in their present conviction” (ibid.). In other words, Manz was opposed to coercion and held that the church should consist of true believers—those who wanted to accept and obey the gospel.
For his “heretical” ideas, Felix Manz had his hands tied around his bent knees, with a big stick shoved between his elbows and knees so that he could not move his arms. He was put in a boat and rowed into the Limmat River, where he was thrown into the frigid water to drown. The date was January 5, 1527.
Over the recent centuries, both Catholicism and Protestantism have had to back off of “compelle intrare,” but neither the former nor the denominations that sprang from the latter have gone all the way back to the primitive church’s organization and practice. Therein lies their insuperable problem.
If we, in the church of Christ, had lived back then, we would have been hunted like dogs by both Catholics and the Reformers. We are still at spiritual war with their religious descendants, but, thanks be, at least they cannot come after us today with a death warrant.
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John T. Polk II
Waylan,
Thanks for the historical reminder, since we “have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin” (Hebrews 12:4), but we may yet pay our dues (Hebrews 11:32-40). Islam, like Roman Catholicism, is passively agreeable as a minority of a population, but in a majority, they are like our adversary the Devil, walking about like a lion, seeking whom they may devour (1 Peter 5:8). Whatever our lot, we must not “fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” (Matthew 10:28). Keep admonishing, brother.
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Weylan Deaver
Hardeman’s closing statement
(What follows are N. B. Hardeman’s closing remarks as he brought his final speech to an end during his 1938 debate with the Baptist preacher, Ben M. Bogard, in Little Rock, Arkansas. If we have lost the regal style of his rhetoric, our language is the poorer. But, if we ever lose sight of the sentiment he expressed, our souls will be truly impoverished—Weylan).
“Let me say this as a final word to you friends and brethren. If you have named the name of the Lord; if you have tasted the good word of God; if you stand today a child of high heaven with all sins forgiven—to God be all the praise and glory, and to us the encouragement. I want to suggest to you, many of whom I know that I will never again see. I take you to record this day that, as much as time and opportunity have afforded, I am pure from the blood of men who have been listening. Why? I have not shunned to declare the whole counsel of God. Brethren, I beg of you in heaven’s name, let us buckle on God’s armor afresh; let us raise aloft the banner, let us unsheathe the sword of the Spirit, and so long as God lets us live, let us fight under the leadership of him who has never yet lost a conflict. And then by and by, when life’s race has been run, its battles fought and its victories won, the Captain of our salvation shall bid us stack arms on the glad plains of a never-ending eternity. There he will have us to lay aside our battle-scarred armor, and hang our swords upon the jasper walls of that eternal city. Then with palms of victory and crowns of glory we will sweep through the gates into the grandeur of our Father’s home, across which no shadows have ever come, wherein we can see beautiful sentences of life, punctuated by the stars of eternal glory, enabling us to read our titles clear to mansions over there. May God bless you is my prayer.”-
Mike Riley
An eloquent and elevating closing by brother, Hardeman, one of the greatest preachers who ever lived – a man of great conviction and determination: http://www.therestorationmovement.com/hardeman,nb.htm
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Mike Riley
Type in “Hardeman” in the keywords section, and you can listen to seven of his sermons: http://www.wsoj.net/
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Chad Dollahite
wow…just to read it is impressive…I can only imagine how it would have been to hear it in person!
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Ron
I just finished reading the first debate topic between (again) in the book. Currently I am reading the Nichols-Weaver debate.
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pianobron1
N.B. Hardeman and my granddaddy were dear friends. I have a retouched photo of them standing in the Hardeman’s yard in Henderson, TN, smiling at one another.
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Weylan Deaver
It was a good past weekend for the Sherman Drive congregation. Saturday evening a young dad-to-be baptized his wife. Sunday morning they identified as members here, as did another man who had been visiting us for several months. My oldest son (age 19) preached the afternoon sermon, following which one of our newer members came forward to be restored to God.
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Weylan Deaver
I’ve been reading some Moses E. Lard recently, and am impressed.
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J. Randal Matheny
I have his Quarterly. If you find that story about the preacher who converted only a little girl at a meeting, and was disappointed, let me know. I’m almost sure I read it there.
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Ron
I hope to buy a set one day – assuming it can be purchased and at a reasonable cost.
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drkenney
I read that Guy N. Woods attributed the writings of Mose E. Lard as one of the major influences for his writing style.
A person can download Volume 1 in PDF format for free at http://books.google.com/books?id=DYcfAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22Lard's+Quarterly%22&hl=en&ei=rwAfTqa9Ecbu0gGqqozLAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
Hope you will post some significant “pull-quotes” along the way….
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Weylan Deaver
After wading through a most tedious tome on the Protestant Reformation, it is refreshing to read on the subject in F. W. Mattox’ book, “The Eternal Kingdom.” In 70 pages, Mattox out-does the 357 pages of Lewis Spitz’ volume. Though I’ve had his book forever, I am discovering it for the first time. Does anyone know of a better one-volume history of the church written by a Christian?
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Weylan Deaver
The Case for Christ
This morning I finished reading Lee Strobel’s book, The Case for Christ. Chock full of outstanding material of great apologetic value, it is such a shame that, in conclusion, he encourages readers to embrace a faith-only salvation. I wish he had delved into the actual gospel as deeply as he did into the evidence for Jesus’ deity, in order to an accurate presentation of it.
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Richard Hill
I read it a few years back and felt exactly the same way. It is a great read and I highly recommend to everyone. I just warn them about the just-believe-and-be-saved ending.
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Weylan Deaver
We made it back home to Denton Saturday night after a week at church camp in west Texas, where the mercury rose to around 111 degrees. I got to teach eighth graders in the morning, do a Q&A session with high schoolers in the afternoon, and sit in on Dad’s class for the men each morning, and hear Dan Winkler preach twice each day (he actually spoke three times a day, but my own class overlapped one of them). The brethren in Sheffield are great people, and I heard there were over 300 at camp (despite the heat, austere conditions, and being in the middle of nowhere). Now it’s back to a more normal routine…but with air conditioning.
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J. Randal Matheny
Being in the middle of nowhere with the Deavers and Dan Winkler sounds like a winner to me. Except for the heat.
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Mike Riley
Weylan, what’s the name of the West Texas church camp? If the high schoolers had a Q&A session with you, I’m sure they learned a great deal.
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Weylan Deaver
Mike, it’s the Pecos River Encampment (http://pecosriverencampment.joelowens.org/). The high schoolers had some challenging questions, ranging from tattoos to why did God kill Uzzah, but not Jonah?
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Weylan Deaver
How NOT to begin your first affirmative speech in a public debate…
“Gentlemen Moderators, Ladies and Gentlemen: I am glad of the opportunity to come before you this afternoon. I have really forgotten the wording of the proposition. The church of the New Testament was set up and organized by Jesus Christ during his personal ministry on earth. That’s only one of my habits of forgetting the proposition. It doesn’t matter much about that anyhow, as we say what we please, regardless.”
So began the Baptist, Ben Bogard, in his debate with N. B. Hardeman in 1938 (p. 158).
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J. Randal Matheny
Hilarious! This guy was their champion?
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Weylan Deaver
Yes, not his best effort. Nevertheless, it did not stop him from proceeding to affirm error. As he said, “we say what we please, regardless.”
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John Henson
At least he told the truth about that, butt about very much anything else.
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Weylan Deaver
Late next week we’ll be driving some 400 miles to west Texas, where I’ll try my hand at teaching eighth graders for a week at the Pecos River Encampment, a fascinating gathering of hundreds of Christians that has been going on over 60 years: http://pecosriverencampment.joelowens.org/. Should be beastly hot and dry, with dust blowing in your eyes on a heated breeze, but the people, fellowship, and Bible study are deep. Dan Winkler will be the main speaker this year, which will be worth enduring the elements.
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J. Randal Matheny
Dan was a favorite college teacher of one of my sons. God go with you and bless your teaching.
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Weylan Deaver
I’ve been working on Mormonism this afternoon. Surely, the success of that group is attributable to (1) man’s inherent religious nature, and (2) man’s supreme gullibility in relation to his religious nature (once he rejects the gospel).
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J. Randal Matheny
Here’s another, a guess of mine: (3) man’s attraction to the mysterious, the cryptic, the esoteric.
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guy
If the CoC had the same “mission” expectations as the LDS do (i think it’s two years doing door-to-door stuff, isn’t it?), don’t you think we may have at least fairly comparable success?
The other thing the LDS have going for them is the encouragement to procreate, right? The more kids the better. It’s a high value. So i wonder what the current ratio is then of first generation Mormons to 2nd/3rd/etc. generation Mormons. Either way, they have set up doctrinal standards that cover both forms of recruitment.
–guy
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J. Randal Matheny
Guy, I think that’s stlil in force, yes. Those are two values we’d do well to emulate, because they’re biblical.
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Weylan Deaver
I think Randal hits on the right approach, i.e. “emulate, because they’re biblical.” Personally, I try to avoid statements affirming that we have something to learn from Mormons or other religious groups. Couched in those terms (e.g. “we could learn some things from the Mormons”), it creates a mental image of Mormonism in the position of rightful teacher, and the Lord’s people in position of learners. Rather, I’d say whatever we need to learn we need learn from the Bible. If there’s anything worthy of imitation among Mormons, it is only insofar as they are imitating Scripture, in which case I’d prefer to leave them out of the equation altogether.
I don’t know what their success is with door-to-door, two-year mission efforts, but there would be no means to implement that in the Lord’s church. Nor do I think we would meet “comparable success.” The devil will always have more numbers, whereas a firm stand on the gospel will always put you in the extreme minority. For various reasons, I’m not a proponent of door knocking, and it is not a strategy conducive to success in current American culture.
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guy
Is it impossible to learn something from anyone who’s otherwise in the wrong? There’s definitely non-religious people i’ve met in my life who were more compassionate or more patient than me. i don’t see what the harm is in humbly admitting i have something to learn from them. Why is that threatening? Surely God can use anyone at all for His own purposes even if they’re not saved.
More important though, you don’t think there’s a shaming effect when false teachers end up obeying better than we? Should we be letting those we perceive to be false teachers out perform us in obedience or holiness?
In my gut, i agree about the door-knocking (maybe effective in the past, but probably no longer), however, if we’re right, why have the Mormons continued this as a major component of their mission? If we’re right, then it seems the only explanation is that they must be failing at their door-to-door efforts. But we’d have to look at the numbers to find that out i guess.
–guy
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Weylan Deaver
Guy, as to your question, “Is it impossible to learn something from anyone who’s otherwise in the wrong?”, no, I don’t think it’s impossible, and I do see your point. I suppose it’s a perspective I choose to adopt, in not viewing errorists as my teachers.
As for a “shaming effect when false teachers end up obeying better than we,” if they were obeying, they would not be false teachers; spreading LDS doctrine is not obedience to the Lord. Now, if their zeal for error outstrips our zeal for truth, then, yes, shame on us for that (though I would not grant that is the case, as a sweeping generalization).
No doubt, door knocking has results in some cases, and, perhaps, more success in certain cultures than others. Right now, I don’t see it as effective in America. I know I don’t welcome total strangers coming unexpectedly to the door of my home to attempt to interest me in buying something I don’t want, or in adopting religious views with which I do not agree. Most probably feel the same. The Mormons may continue the practice, but they continue any number of practices, such as the owning of several large corporations, and we would not look at them as a model for that. My opinion is, the gospel is a tough sell in a culture saturated with entertainment, wealth, and fleshly lusts. Modern America thrives on sin; we glorify it, practice it, try to legislatively safeguard it, indoctrinate the next generation in it. Yet, every lost soul has an obligation to be a truth-seeker and a truth-finder and a truth-obeyer.
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guy
Weylan,
i totally agree about the way LDS is run. Beyond the question whether its biblically appropriate for the church to use the contribution that way, it just seems downright shady to me for any religious institution to have control of corporations, especially on the scale of LDS. It sounds to me like mixing earthly and spiritual interests in a way that surely can’t be justified or good.
i’m thinking lately about how the conversion of prospects should go–large scale methodologies. It seems to me some sort of living-apologetic has to be the answer. The difference in lifestyle and interrelations between Christians ought to be distinctive and apparent to outsiders in a way that exposes sin for what it is. And so, when other people like false teachers manifest characteristics that i lack but which ought to be distinctive of my life and the church, that seems to have a sort of shaming effect insomuch as it spotlights my inadequacy. i agree that LDS are fatally mistaken on a number of things. But i do feel “shown up” sometimes when i think of the lengths to which they may be willing to go to propagate their beliefs and question whether i would always have the courage to do the same.
And in that sense alone do i mean to make the points about shaming effects and learning from someone else. Of course i don’t think of them as living in total or satisfactory obedience to Christ. But again, i take it that a number of people have insight into this or that particular matter that i lack and which ought to be characteristic of my life. For that kind of reason, i’ll likely continue to read the works of Francis Schaeffer and Cornelius Van Til on the subject of Christian apologetics, despite the fact that i believe Calvinism is utterly false. Or i’ll continue to thumb through commentaries of Adam Clarke or even NT Wright while studying the text. i think those guys are wrong at crucial points. But i must admit they likely have insights about this or that which i lack. And even though i think they’re wrong on those crucial points and i shouldn’t imitate those particular errors, i think i’d only be proud if i refused to admit they may have ‘out-insighted’ me in other areas which i would do well to both strive to imitate and excel them.
i agree on the tough sell–America not only thrives on sin, but our society even finds ways to codify it into a system of morals. (We had an excellent class at my congregation a year or so ago about the 7 deadly sins and talked about how each one occupies a position of value and ideal in our culture–a chilling study really when you give much thought to how deep the deception might go.) But i think such is the inevitable nature of any political empire, not just America in particular. And because the cultural inculcation of valuing sin runs so deep, even the church harbors much of it: materialism, prejudice, waste, pride, and violence. It seems as though the gospel is a tough sell even in the church, let alone the world. Perhaps we’ll have to the address the former before the latter will ever really take off.
–guy
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Weylan Deaver
Guy, I appreciate your thoughts, including your statement that “It seems to me some sort of living-apologetic has to be the answer.” I think that coincides with my own belief that the best evangelistic strategy is simply to be a happy, devoted Christian. The further the world gets from God, the more starkly will a Christian stand out in relief against the backdrop of sin (hopefully, prompting them to ask a reason for the hope that is in us–that’s the way it’s supposed to work).
I certainly do my share of reading in commentaries and books written by non-members of the church, so I’ve no disagreement with you over the possibility of benefiting from such (with caution, of course).
And, your conclusion may be spot on, as well, i.e. that the key to converting the lost is to first make sure the church are truly converted. With that being the case, is there any doubt God will give the increase, according to his own will?
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Weylan Deaver
“I am going to maintain that there is no act at all that any man in the Old Testament time or the New ever had to perform in order to be saved. Salvation is received by faith, and faith is the only thing you can do without doing anything.”
Baptist preacher, Ben Bogard, arguing against baptism in the Hardeman-Bogard Debate, p. 93 (ponder the contradiction in his last sentence).-
Weylan Deaver
That’s just one example of Bogard’s striking illogic. Here’s another from p. 97: “If you are baptized in order to become a child of God, you can’t be following Jesus Christ. Why? Because Jesus Christ was not baptized to make him the Son of God. He was already God’s Son, baptized that this fact might be ‘made manifest.’”
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Ron
We need more occasions for there to be public discussions. Some may not feel comfortable engaging in this; others should not be engaged in this, but for those who are comfortable and charitable (but fierce), they should pursue these discussions, no matter the format.
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Weylan Deaver
Yes, Ron, I’m a believer in rightly-conducted public religious debates. I was astonished to read Bogard saying his debate with Hardeman was the 227th of his career (p. 94). Assuming it’s not a typo, that’s two hundred and twenty-seven debates!
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Ron
There was a time when conviction meant something! Of course, this is not to relegate the conviction of those who have not the stomach for public discussions, but, in my view, if they support the endeavor, they are engaged.
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John Henson
Someone who wishes to circumvent the scriptures can’t make a logical argument.
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Weylan Deaver
“Dr. Bogard, I appreciate your invitation to come over to the Missionary Baptist Institute and take a course with you, but I would suggest that you come over to Freed-Hardeman College and take a real course in simple English grammar. The Lord knows you need it…If my friend would first learn his mother tongue, he would then have less time to get lost while fooling with Greek words. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation and Dr. Bogard has failed to prove it otherwise.”
N. B. Hardeman, “The Hardeman-Bogard Debate,” April 1938, pp. 73-74.
Robert Floyd, 
Glenda Williams, and 4 others are discussing. 
pianobron1, 
drkenney, 
guy, and 
Ron Thomas 4:36 am on February 23, 2012 Permalink |
One of the nice things about IL is that this can be done via the mail or, in my case, via the “booth” they have at the Illinois State Fair.